Q&A With Single Cask Nation, Part 1

By Kurt Maitland

It was my great pleasure to spend some time with the brain trust of Single Cask Nation (SCN): Joshua Hatton and Jason Johnstone-Yellin (Co-owners and founders of the brand) and Jess Lomas, Global Sales Manager.

I have known this crew for most of my time as a whiskey writer – I met Josh at an early tasting for SCN at a whiskey club in Queens. That was one of the first whiskey club tastings I had attended and, in fact, it was one of the events that led me to start the Manhattan Whiskey Club. I would often run into Jason and Joshua at whiskey festivals both in the US and the UK, and met Jess on my first visit to Islay’s Feis Ile. One of my early interviews was with Hatton, back in 2016.

We have a lot to talk about (hence the two-parter; part two will come out in two weeks). Earlier this year, Single Cask Nation became a part of Artisanal Spirits Company (ASC) – owner of the Scotch Malt Whisky Society (SMWS) and J.G. Thomson. I wanted to speak to them about how and why that happened and what lies ahead. Let’s get to it!

Kurt Maitland: It is great to see you all. My first big question for the team is “What drove the move to become part of the Artisanal Spirits Company portfolio?”

Josh Hatton: When Jason and I started this company 13 years ago, we had a five-year plan that we knew two people we could enact. I think that we did a pretty good job with that. Five years in you think “Hey, we did all right”. We’ve never been entrepreneurs; we never started a company before. But hey, most fail by this time, and we’ve done okay. But we weren’t where we needed to be – a successful business that could support us and that we could focus on full-time. All of our profits were put back into the company so that we could continue to grow. We came up with another five-year plan and we moved into retail along with our online operations. We ended the Whisky Jewbilee [a top ten whiskey festival that Josh and Jason founded that is sorely missed] and that allowed us to bring Jess into the team so we could start to expand globally. When we got to the end of our second five-year plan and we were two years into the next five-year plan (basically without a plan or a net) because of COVID and I felt that we were holding on for dear life a little bit.

COVID hit lines of distribution, the cost of casks become astronomical/borderline inaccessible, and it had gotten to the point where we had to really think about what our business would look like moving forward. The ability to bottle Scotch whisky became very difficult, especially in US, because of the three-tiered system and the higher cost of casks. We still may have been able to sell into other markets but bringing them to the US, our main market, was nigh on impossible.

And then we met a mutual friend of ours and the Artisanal Spirits Company who just started talking with both parties. We were interested in keeping the brand and the business going. They saw what we had been doing and realized we didn’t have the support that we needed, and they wanted to grow with us. As people who built a business from the ground up, it’s very much our baby. Selling is a difficult decision. Being able to continue what we’re doing and start working on projects in a way that we hadn’t been able to before because now we’ve got the support, both from a financial and access to whisky standpoint was incredibly attractive to us. So, we came to an agreement. We both shared a vision of what Single Cask Nation and Artisanal Spirits Company could do together.

Jason Johnstone-Yellin: When we spoke with Mark Gillespie (the host of WhiskyCast) immediately after the sale, he asked “Why sell now?” Because for us, the timing was perfect. And that made the decision a lot easier. Five years ago, there’s no way we do this. Five years in the future, I’m not sure what we’re selling to be honest. But the time was right. And it felt right all the way through the conversations, Artisanal wants to grow and wanted to work with us to do the same. It all made sense.

Kurt Maitland: There has been so much going on with independent bottlers of late–the changes at Compass Box, Gordon MacPhail no longer acquiring new make, etc.–I think the independent bottling paradigm is shifting for everyone in that market. I can see how your move fixes lot of problems – You don’t have to spend time trying to acquire overpriced Scotch casks anymore. Now you can focus on picking from an extensive portfolio, highlighting other styles of whiskey and adding those to the fold.

Jason Johnstone-Yellin: And that’s a great point to raise Kurt, which is we continue to have thoughts going forward, we continue to have a bit of collaboration. Jess is looking at distilleries in Scandinavia, Josh and I are looking at other distilleries in America and Australia. That part continues. But I really liked what you said there is we’re not looking over lists of overpriced Scotch casks. Instead, we are going out to the source, those other bricks and mortar establishments and saying, “Do you want to collaborate?” “Do you want to tell some stories together?”

That’s a very different place than we’ve been in for the last few years. And that’s freeing and that’s creative. And that fuels what we’re trying to achieve at Single Cask Nation. You know, being an independent bottler is difficult, there’s no doubt about it. One of the things I’ve said in private conversation and other interviews and Joshua said that in his response – We’re not entrepreneurs. We don’t have a line of businesses behind us. We were two guys who went, “Let’s put out some whiskey.” And then when we had the chance in 2019, said, “Let’s bring in a friend.” and there was Jess. And let’s add some more whiskey to this and every single day, we felt the pressures of being independent, we had no umbrella, we had no safety net, it was just the three of us, day in and day out saying, “What do we do today?” “What do we do tomorrow?” “What are we doing this week?” And so, bringing in that support system seems like it was the right move.

Josh Hatton: There’s compromises that that you make but when you see a path forward for both the long term and short term, the deal made sense. One of the things that personally brought me comfort is when you look at the stocks available to us. And not just the existing stocks, but the stock behind it, that can keep this brand and other brands supplied. It’s significant. It really is a game changer that brings us back to a world where cost forecasts made sense and you could actually do business. I’m willing to compromise here or there to ensure the longevity of the brand we built.

Kurt Maitland: I have a question for you, Jess. How was this change for you?

Jess Lomas: I didn’t get the privilege of being on the frontline of the negotiations but what do I think this gives us is an opportunity to expand and collaborate. Here in the UK, SMWS has got a great stronghold. And I think it’s cool to have a sister company. It gives Artisanal a bit of an opportunity and space to talk about their portfolio, their family of brands, where it hasn’t really been that before. So, I think it’s an advantage now that it gives Artisanal a bit more kind of power to explain what they do and I guess it just helps us get more liquid to lips. I think it’s a great way of getting bottles and opportunities to try whiskies. Obviously, there’s a clear danger, which several people have highlighted to me – you could sit down with a SCN Linkwood and put it next to an SMWS Linkwood. And they’re the same liquid but they are really not. We have totally different processes as to how we decide what liquid ends up being bottled and in your glass. As a whiskey nerd. I think that’s quite exciting to see. Isn’t that why all of us sit and drink whiskey like this? I like this idea of chasing rainbows and unicorns. That’s why Single Cask is right, it’s never to be repeated. And even the casks that sat next to it aren’t necessarily the same whisky.

Kurt Maitland:Jess, how does this deal specifically change what you do for the brand? Because you’re the global ambassador and the tip of the spear in Europe and everywhere else, while Jason and Josh are mainly in the US.

Jess Lomas: I’d love to pretend to have a monthly expedition across the Atlantic. I’d feel like such a jet setting lady boss, but I think for now, nothing will change. I don’t think you’re gonna find me pouring SMWS alongside SCN bottles in the UK. I don’t know the long-term future and if we partner up and target markets together and what that may look like it. But for now, if you are a person arriving at a whisky festival, and you see a table that has Single Cask Nation on it, and you see a table that is being run by Scotch Malt Whisky Society and you don’t know the history of the merger, it’s very unlikely that you’d be “Oh, yeah, they’re related to each other.” That’s two different presentations of what whiskies look like. They very carefully market themselves as a society. We very frequently use the phrase, independent bottlers. We talk about our process slightly different and obviously, both we and SMSA have a tasting panel. We are just three people arguing about whiskey samples. Other times I just say “I’m having this you can’t have it.” So, I think for the punter, I hope nothing looks too different. I think naturally we humans don’t like change. There’s has been speculation/assumptions from people who are like, “Oh, you’ve been bought by SMWS” and then we have very short sentences where we explain that we have not been purchased by SMWS. But apart from that, I can’t see it being too different. What I would be interested in is to hear what you guys say in the US. Is the conversation reversed where maybe Single Cask Nation are much better known in America than Scotch Malt Whisky Society? Because we’re still the new guys making baby steps on this side of the pond.

Kurt Maitland: Do you guys see either creating a festival that is focused on your releases, or more participation in existing festivals, whether in Europe or in the States?

Josh Hatton: Well, this is what I was going to add on to your question to Jess and I think that this will apply to the three of us on the team – now that we have access to more liquid, we’re able to bottle more releases, hopefully grow into more markets and be able to get out on the road more. Jess was brought on in 2019 and then the pandemic happened. There was no traveling whatsoever. And even coming out of the pandemic, as a small company with not a ton of cash, being able to visit these markets, you really had to pick and choose what made sense from a monetary standpoint. It’s a bit different now. Jess is looking at visiting Germany and potentially going to Japan, with us still building out what 2024 is going to look like in both the US and other markets. It’s clear, we will need to be on the road a bit more to support that. And if that means we’re joining more festivals, where it makes sense there’s no doubt about it.

You know, here in the States, we’re still imported by Impex, they remain our import partner. And they support Whiskies of the World, Whiskey and Barrel Night and a few other festivals here and there, and we will always be included in those festivals. Maybe I’ll join those festivals, maybe Jason will make an appearance. We’ll continue to rely on our importers for that. I think that’s likely the smartest position for us now is to align ourselves with the importers and distributors that have helped us grow.

Jess Lomas: I think it’s also about being a bit smarter, certainly on this side of the pond. I mean, we’re in the middle of mega festival whiskey season, I could be at a different whiskey festival every week. And that’s just not feasible when you’re working with single cask products, which are highly limited. You could use a whole cask of product going into a different market every weekend.

When we are bottling sherry butts, we get a fairly chunky number of bottles. But apart from that we don’t have that much liquid. I would love to have a whole cask just for festivals but we’re also a business and we have to make money. I’ve been told repeatedly, you’re not supposed to drink a whole cask yourself (Laughs)

When choosing your festivals, you need to be careful. We could go scattergun and totally mental. Global! Every festival! But ultimately as a brand, you need to be a little bit smarter. Like, is there any point as appearing in three festivals within a two-month period in France? No. Is there a point in being at every festival in Germany? No. So while it’s nice to get a bit of crossover, there are definitely kinds of festivals and destinations we need to target.

For example, we’re always going to be at Glasgow Whisky Festival, because it’s where I live. I know the show organizers, it means a lot to Jason, it means a lot to Joshua. So that’s like your home team, right? So that’s, that’s a no brainer take of a festival. And the problem is that while we are here at these festivals, you get lots of other people who run festivals who come to the table, they slide their business card across the table, they say, you should come and do my whiskey festival, in a very small community, where there are only 17 of us, and we only have our whiskey in a supermarket, but we’re having a festival and you should come anyway.

Despite what you might want to do, you can’t do it all. And definitely, as we’re finally able to hit our stride and start pushing really hard this side of the pond, it’s not an excuse to go crazy and do everything. There’s a good chunk of people who travel around between the same festivals. There’s no point having the same face come and greet you in three different locations,

I actually like the idea of festivals having an online element. I am an able-bodied person who can get on a plane and go anywhere, but if you have medical issues or things that make travel difficult for you, then you’re never going to have gone to the Whisky Show in London. I, as an able bodied person gets shoved around. Imagine being a wheelchair that’s the wrong height. Where’s the toilet? How bad are the queues the toilets? When we were suddenly all locked in our houses it didn’t matter if your legs worked or not. Everybody can have a dram. So, I was kind of hoping that positive aspect of that time would continue but it hasn’t really.

We had several people at the beginning of lockdown and they were like, “No, we’ll just wait for the tastings to go back in the pub. It’s very weird.” By the end of lockdown, let me tell you, they were all on board and they were having a riot. The tasting that we run in Sweden has created a huge countrywide gang of friends and let me tell you what an incredible trick that. Swedish people don’t talk to their neighbors and the fact that we’ve got a countrywide gang of people who are excited to hang out together and share our whiskies, I think that’s incredible. And we couldn’t have achieved that without doing virtual online tastings.

The second half of this interview will be available in two weeks, on July 31.